Friday, March 31, 2006

A View of Women

Go check out Karen's quotes about women by men of the church over at got me a college girl. Here's a sample:

"Men should not sit and listen to a woman. Even if she says admirable things, or even saintly things, that is of little consequence, since they came from the mouth of a woman." Origen, early church father

"Woman is defective and misbegotten, for the active power in the male seed tends to the production of a perfect likeness in the masculine sex, while production of woman comes from defect in the active force." Thomas Aquinas

Thank the Lord that we aren't viewed that way today (or are we, check out the video). And thank the Lord for the ladies over at this wonderful website who bring this stuff to our attention. I have learned a great deal about what's going on in the blogosphere from their website.

The church that undervalues their women is a church that rejects what the Lord has given to the body for the use by all. I praise God that I live in a time when this is not the predominate view of the church but only its fringe element. Thank you, Lord that my pastor doesn't think this way, nor my husband and seminary professors. I am truly blessed to be surrounded by support and encouragement. I feel sorry for those who are not. I pray that the Lord will awaken the church to the clear teaching of His word:
Ephesians 4:15-16 Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ, from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love.
Thank you Lord that this is what goes on at my church and I pray that it is what goes on through this website.


  1. Moonshadow said...
    It's a small consolation but one nonetheless to me that three women (religious) have been recognized by the universal church as "doctors", meaning that their writings are useful to Christians in any age.

    The sidebar links on this page give introductions to each doctor. Turn off your speakers or else you'll be treated to the most beautiful song ever: the ave maria.

    You may recognize a few names in the sidebar list, especially the ones whose words were cited by Karen on got me a college girl, Aquinas, Augustine, Chrysostom. Just shows these aren't infallible but I'm not sure when, as a people, we developed this notion that any given person must be 100% accurate on everything before we'll listen to anything from them. (I'm not saying that Karen is saying this; everyone knows about Augustine and women -- it's classic)

    This artificial (and arrogant) criterion conveniently excuses us from attending to anyone else except ourselves (as if we are correct 100% of the time!) and Scripture -- I had better include Scripture! -- and with clear conscience, dismiss any wisdom from a well-intentioned, human sage.
    michele said...
    I don't think a Calvinist could ever be accused of not listening to Augustine :-)
    Beth said...
    I grew up going to the Church Of Christ-women are not even allowed to say "Amen" after a prayer. Women have to hold their own prayer and bible studies at some point during the week since the men basically run the church. Meaning the men oversee the Lord's Supper each Sunday, the ministers are all men and with the exception of young kids-men handle the Sunday School lessons. Women handle kids below the age of 10 I think. I don't necessarily believe this is how it should be, but, it's what I'm used to.
    michele said...
    In this type of arrangement the women of the church can't really participate and will not be able to use their God-given gifts.
    Moonshadow said...
    beth said ...

    I grew up going to the Church Of Christ

    Am I wrong in thinking that the Winkler minister murdered was the same, the Church of Christ?

    The Church of Christ came across very favorably in a program, (scroll down) Only In America, about country preachers and Pentecostalism that I saw last Nov. on the Discovery Times Channel. I recommend the program ... it was respectfully done.

    I got to the point where I printed out nearby Church of Christ churches to visit. I mean, they came across as just a normal Christian Church without anything peculiar in their beliefs.

    But I would find the side that you show to be very unusual. It's certainly not anything that I could stand.

    I have more to say but I'll make another post.
    Moonshadow said...
    OK, separate post.

    On 1 Cor. 11:10, Fitzmyer told us that Paul instructs women to cover their heads because angels (present at worship) required physical wholeness, and women were somehow less than whole. Fitzmyer cited mostly Qumran literature. Fifty years ago, he was the first to notice parallelism between the Qumran literature and Lev. 21:17-23.

    Michael D. Marlowe does a nice job with the verse here. Michael cites Fitzmyer but doesn't take things as far.

    Michael is a nice guy -- conservative, Reformed, WCF, et. al. I recommend his site wholeheartedly and the Yahoo! group that he moderates ("bible_research").

    There's more here -- scroll down a bit or find 'fitzmyer'.
    Beth said...
    You're right, the minister who was murdered was a minister at a Church of Christ. Now, keep in mind all Church Of Christs are different since they do not have one governing body-they govern themselves. Example: The church I went to did not have music in worship services-however a Church of Christ 20 miles away allows it. Everything depends on each individual church. I didn't mean to make it sound as if women have no role and are some how belittled. In some churches the women just do it on their own and not in the actual worship services. A good place for information-since I had to try and explain the church to someone else is this link: Church of Christ on Wikipedia
    Moonshadow said...
    michele said ...

    I don't think a Calvinist could ever be accused of not listening to Augustine :-)

    Some quotes from this CT article

    Cary shows us how, whether we are Christian or not, Westerners' very understanding of ourselves as human beings comes directly from Augustine. When we think of ourselves as having deep, inner psychological depths, we are speaking Augustine-ese.Cary illuminates the ways in which our understandings of such central matters as God's grace, the nature of evil and sin, and the relationship between religion and happiness have all been deeply formed by this seminal philosopher-saint.


    Augustine as conservator and explicator of the Nicene doctrine of the Trinity, elaborator of a distinctly new Christian understanding of love, and progenitor of understandings of church, sacraments, and church-state relations that have persisted as pillars of Western Christian thought until today.

    To which I say "duh!"

    (I don't say "duh" to you, Michele ... you understated the matter very modestly.)

    beth, lemme check out that wikipedia entry ... thank you for it ... because my knowledge was limited to what Mead's Handbook of Denom. in the US said.
    Moonshadow said...

    Thank you for the wiki article on C of C because it was more complete than what Mead has in his 12th edition. (I mean, it isn't Mead anymore, he's dead ... but you understand)

    Now that I think of it, it was the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) that I was interested in checking out, not the churches of Christ.

    What appealed to me in the former was weekly communion and an ecumenical spirit.
    michele said...
    I stated the matter very tongue-in-cheek! So, of course duh!

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